How to Talk About Suicide Openly and Compassionately - Tara Adams

When was the last time you had a conversation with your colleagues, friends or family about suicide awareness and prevention?  Today’s episode has a content warning as my guest and I talk about a complex and serious topic - Suicide awareness and prevention. 

CONTENT WARNING: This episode contains some sensitive content as we talk about suicide.

Years ago, someone close to me came to me and said they wanted to end their life. I wasn’t prepared for the conversation. Years later, the conversion plays in my mind. They are still with us and I am grateful for that.

Tara Adams, founder of Abridge Consulting, focusing on improving mental health and preventing suicide in the workplace, shares her approach to creating safe spaces to discuss how to talk sensitively about suicide with children, friends, and family, emphasizing the need for safe spaces for such conversations. 

She also highlights how common the thoughts of suicide are and how crucial the language we use plays in ending stigma. Our conversation will equip you with knowledge and strategies to support those around you and to apply what you learn to honour lived experiences.

Takeaways:

• Talking about suicide is important to reduce stigma and provide support.
• Building a suicide-safer workplace involves reducing stigma and understanding individual roles.
• Creating a safe space for conversations about suicide is crucial, especially when talking to children.
• Language plays a significant role in ending stigma and promoting understanding.
• Honouring lived experiences and applying what you learn can make a difference in suicide prevention.

Tara Adams - Bio:

Tara Adams is the founder of Abridge Consulting, focusing on improving mental health and preventing suicide in the workplace. She helps organizations that want to invest in their employees' well-being and company culture. Tara started Abridge Consulting with the goal of connecting people experiencing mental health issues with the support they need faster. With extensive experience in training and employee wellness, Tara previously led mental health initiatives for 6,000 employees, enhancing their mental, physical, emotional, and financial well-being. Outside of work, Tara is a dedicated mother of two, an enthusiastic tennis player, and hopes to excel in senior tennis competitions in the future.

Contact Links:

• LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/taraabridgeconsulting
• LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/company/abridge-consulting
• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tara.adams.abridgeconsulting
• Twitter - https://twitter.com/T

Chapters

• 0:00 Talking About Suicide Prevention and Awareness
• 12:51 Talking About Thoughts of Suicide
• 26:00 Changing Stigma Through Language
• 38:19 Honoring the Past, Moving Forward

Transcript

Tim Reitsma: 0:00

Today's episode has a content warning, as my guest and I talk about this complex topic suicide awareness and prevention.

Tara Adams: 0:08

It's really scary. So there's lots of reasons why people don't feel comfortable with the word. I don't think my goal is that everybody feels comfortable with the word. I think my goal is everybody can say the word, could say out loud I have thoughts of suicide, I don't know what to do. The goal is not everybody is super comfortable that we're casually using, because many words in the world of mental illness people use them casually in other contexts. So with the word suicide we want to acknowledge that thoughts of suicide are common, much more common than we already know, and then acknowledge that when we can talk to somebody it will be very, very helpful.

Tim Reitsma: 0:57

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Tim Reitsma: 1:47

When was the last time you had a conversation with your colleagues, friends or family about suicide? Years ago, someone close to me came to me and said they wanted to end their life. I wasn't prepared for that conversation and years later, that conversation still plays in my mind. This person is still with us and I'm so grateful for that. Hey, tim here.

Tim Reitsma: 2:10

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Invisible Condition Podcast, where we talk about advocacy and unusually normal things, the conditions, diseases and illnesses we live with. We will end the stigma of invisible conditions by powering voices, and today's voice is brought to us by Tara Adams. Tara, a mental health expert, brings insights into reducing stigma and highlighting the importance of open dialogue and discussions about suicide. She shares her approach to creating safer spaces to discuss how we talk sensitively about suicide with our children, our friends, our family, our colleagues, emphasizing the need for safe spaces for such conversations. She also highlights how common the thoughts of suicide are and how crucial the language we use plays in ending stigma. Our conversation will equip you with knowledge and strategies to support those around you and to apply what you learn to honor lived experiences.

Tim Reitsma: 3:05

Have a listen. Hey Tara, thanks for joining the Invisible Condition podcast. And, before we get into it, just for those who are listening, today is a topic we don't talk enough about. Suicide and the content that we will be sharing and discussing may be triggering to some. That we will be sharing and discussing may be triggering to some and I wanted to say that with all sincerity and with all seriousness, because this is a topic that is close to my heart and I know close to many of our hearts, and one that I'm just, can I say, excited. I'm eager to learn from you. So, tara, welcome to the show. Thank you, I'm very excited to the show.

Tara Adams: 3:44

Thank you, I'm very excited to talk about my favorite topic.

Tim Reitsma: 3:49

Yeah, and so even when we were just in the debrief or just briefing for this episode, is you talk about the S word all the time? Why don't you just give us a quick brief of what does that even mean? What does that look like?

Tara Adams: 4:03

Well, it's interesting because I appreciate so much your content warning because it is a sensitive topic.

Tara Adams: 4:09

However, I live in a strange place where I talk about it all the time, so it's often a good reminder just for me to say that my comfort level is not the usual comfort level.

Tara Adams: 4:20

So, even before we talk about anything today, let's take a moment to acknowledge all the lived experience between the two of us you don't have to tell me, I don't have to tell you and all the folks who will hopefully be listening, so let's just take a moment. There's many of us who've lost people to suicide, many of us have had thoughts of suicide, and you're all in the right place at the right time. The other thing just to let your watchers, listeners, followers know is that we will maintain what's called psychological health and safety, which means we can talk about suicide, but keep it at a level that we hope is very accessible for anyone. We're not going to be talking about details or aspects that would be very traumatic. We're going to keep things at a really high level, because it's important that we talk about this and we want it to be very accessible for folks.

Tim Reitsma: 5:18

Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. And for those of you who are listening, in Canada and the US, there's a number If you find yourself needing support, the number to call is 988. So, again, that's 988 if you find yourself in that space of needing support. So, tara, I'm going to get that right. I've messed up your name. I'm going to get it right, tara. Why do we need to talk about this? If someone has made up their mind about dying or wants to die by suicide, why can't we let them rather than to try to explain it.

Tara Adams: 6:02

I find so. Somebody very close to me in my personal life, while I was talking about the S word in my work life at the very same time, had very serious thoughts of suicide, Very. Because this person had access to some peer support, social support and, honestly, very good clinical support. That person, I can tell you now, is thriving, Is thriving. So it's interesting when you look at how common it is to have thoughts of suicide, how a person can have thoughts of suicide and it makes such perfect sense to them at that time.

Tara Adams: 6:50

Part of what we're trying to do is to acknowledge that makes sense for you right now. It doesn't make all those things. You can make such a difference. So when I tell you that this person who is very, very close to me, was very clear on their thoughts, their decision, their solution to their issues, the way that they saw the world, the way that their logic worked, and then when we all intervened appropriately, it wasn't easy but they've made it through and now I can tell you sincerely they are thriving. So suicide prevention is very, very important. Based on my professional and personal experience, yeah, thanks for sharing that story.

Tim Reitsma: 7:53

I think that will resonate with others as well. And you know, I think a few things important that you said was you know you carefully intervened and were able to support this individual in getting the help that they now can look back and say they needed, and they needed that help in order to and I like what you said the suicide prevention, to prevent this death, and so it's so important. I mean, you devoted your work to this topic and I know you know this podcast is listened by many, not just people in the workplace, but even youth and people all over the world. And you teach, but you teach a course here in Canada, you know, building a safer a suicide safer workplace. If you could sum up that course, because I know people are going to go oh who's Tara and how do I take this course? You know, summarize this course and what should we do and what should we not do when it comes to suicide.

Tara Adams: 9:00

Well, my goodness, we can definitely talk about a few high level things here today, but there's many, many levels and layers of training and there's, you know, one hour trainings, four hour, two days, two years, eight years, clinical. So there are a few things that I like to focus on. I also do focus on suicide prevention in the workplace context, so that is my specialty. By the way, we talk a lot about how to reduce stigma. We talk a lot about what is your role in workplace suicide prevention. This gets very confusing.

Tara Adams: 9:36

No matter your industry, no matter where you work, what am I supposed to do? Who would I tell? Who would I not tell? How? What's my obligation If I'm a people leader? What's my obligation? If I'm a people leader, what's my obligation? If I'm the employer? What's my obligation, what's the business case to do suicide prevention? How do we leverage our resources? So, lots and lots of great things, but a lot of it is about how to reduce stigma. What is your role in workplace suicide prevention, workplace mental health?

Tara Adams: 10:09

And honestly, tim, the most interesting thing I will say about that work is two. One is that clients will say to me oh, I'm not sure if we should do this, I don't know, could you take the word suicide out of the training title? I'm like no, that's the opposite. But then in the end, what happens is the people who attend the training number one word I'd use to describe it grateful. They're so grateful, oh, so helpful, so grateful. Thank you so much.

Tara Adams: 10:38

The second thing is that people in workplace suicide prevention I find they tend to arrive already thinking about how am I going to help other people and I said, ok, I'm here to help you first. Maybe at some point you're going to help someone else, maybe not, but the first thing we're going to do is focus on you. So I find that people are always thinking, oh, how can I help other people? How can I do this? How would I talk to somebody else with thoughts of suicide? Yeah, that's great, but first let's talk about what you would do if you had thoughts of suicide, because thoughts of suicide are so common. This is not something we talk about. So I love doing this work.

Tara Adams: 11:18

Clients are sometimes hesitant and then they typically get some pretty great feedback. The participants sometimes are a little bit hesitant and then they're very, very grateful. You and I were chatting. I often get text messages and emails the day after, the week after, the month after, where people say I really didn't think I would use what you were telling me so fast. I didn't know I would be putting it into action so quickly. Very common message I get.

Tim Reitsma: 11:49

I'm grateful that you've devoted your life's work to this, because there is stigma, even when you said clients or prospective clients said, oh, can we drop that word suicide, and you know I think of of there's. There's a lot wrapped in that word suicide and, but we need to reduce the stigma.

Tim Reitsma: 12:13

We need to. You know, that's the whole purpose of invisible condition. What I'm trying to do is to end the stigma and so reduce the stigma. We got to start there how, I know that's a big question, but what do we need to do to end the stigma?

Tara Adams: 12:28

Well, the stigma is partly the long, long history of the word suicide and for many decades it was considered a crime. It was considered selfish. There's so many negative connotations around the word, clearly, obviously. The second thing is it's very scary. It's really scary. So there's lots of reasons why people don't feel comfortable with the word.

Tara Adams: 12:51

I don't think my goal is that everybody feels comfortable with the word. I think my goal is everybody can say the word, could say out loud I have thoughts of suicide, I don't know what to do. The goal is not everybody's super comfortable that we're casually using, because many words in the world of mental illness people use them casually in other contexts. So with the word suicide we want to acknowledge that thoughts of suicide are common, much more common than we might know, and then acknowledge that when we can talk to somebody it will be very, very helpful.

Tara Adams: 13:34

The most common myth that folks have is that if, for example, that folks have is that if, for example, I do not have thoughts of suicide and Tim is so empathetic and thoughtful, comes to me and says, tara, I want to talk to you, do you have thoughts of suicide, then I would say, oh my gosh, I do not Wait a minute. Now I do Hold on, thanks, not and I'm being tiny bit facetious there but this idea that you would tell me to have thoughts of suicide just simply doesn't hold true. So folks are nervous. There's a long history. There's so much negative connotation, it's so scary. If I say the wrong thing, the worst things can happen. It's a really, really tricky conversation. It really is. So. Acknowledging that is probably part of the first step is to say this isn't going to be easy. It will be hard, yeah.

Tim Reitsma: 14:27

I think about you know, in the context of the workplace, but even in the context of you know, I'm a father with two young children.

Tim Reitsma: 14:35

And you know I was talking with my wife, my partner, about this upcoming episode and hey, what do you want to learn? And she said how do we talk about this with our kids? And it's not just one of those topics I want to leave to the school system, it's how do we embrace this, not just from a here's what definition, but if you have, if we are a safe place for you Right?

Tara Adams: 15:03

Well, let me say that I'm not a psychologist and my specialty isn't children. However, I'm a parent, and so I've had to talk to my own children about the topic of suicide many, many times. At this point, neither of them has expressed their own thoughts of suicide, but they're certainly curious. Kids have questions and you need to be that safe place for them to ask really, really awkward questions, and this would be one of them. I heard about somebody on the radio that killed themselves. Mom, what does that mean? Right? That question will come, especially if there was anything online or in the news about somebody their age. That's when they first came to me and said what is this all about? It's interesting. The same thing applies you.

Tara Adams: 15:49

Talking to your child about thoughts of suicide in a really age-appropriate way, right, will not give them the thought, but they need to understand mom or dad or parent, whatever that may look like, whatever gender, you are a safe place to come for awkward conversations and awkward questions, including the S word right? Well, that could be many S words, but anyway this particular S word. Think about creating safety, right. So if your child has questions around suicide, creating safety right. So if your child has questions around suicide without thoughts of suicide. Now you're creating a safe space. If they ever have thoughts of suicide, they know they can come to you. That's what's important, which is creating those little connections. If this was ever you, I want you to know you can come and talk to me. Thoughts of suicide are common. Sometimes people have a fleeting idea that they might want to hurt themselves. If that ever happens for you, I want you to come and tell me Okay, mom, okay dad, okay, parent, okay, aunt, uncle, grandma, grandpa, neighbor, cousin, friend.

Tim Reitsma: 16:54

It doesn't matter, right, it takes a village it does and, as you're talking, I think it's also relevant for our friends yes, you know I'm an adult, you know I have friends that are adults and but creating that safe place and that safety and that's, you know, going into maybe a deeper level of friendship rather than just talking about the weather sports yeah and whatever else. You know traffic and how to, you know change policy, whatever, but you know getting, getting personal.

Tara Adams: 17:27

Yeah, my anecdotal evidence tells me through my own life and my my partner's life. Those times when you ask a more personal question, whatever the topic, the answer is me too, yeah, I've been wondering, or I want to talk about that, or I've been through that. It is so interesting how the first person to be brave enough to open up that kind of conversation, then everybody says, oh yeah, I know Right, because thoughts of suicide are very common. So let me, let me put it this way for you Every class I ever teach around this topic, every time so five years times 80, I don't know thousands, thousands of people I'll say I'm going to ask you two questions, but I don't want any words or context to your answer. It's simply yes or no. So, as I always say, hands up for yes, hands down for no. Who in our room, face-to-face or virtual, has been in a conversation that includes suicide in any way? In any way at all? Do you want to know what the average answer is, tim?

Tim Reitsma: 18:37

Oh, I'm so curious.

Tara Adams: 18:38

Two-thirds, two-thirds of the people in my group.

Tara Adams: 18:42

Now, occasionally there are certain groups. I've had One group was a hundred percent. I think the lowest I've ever had was 40%, but typically it's two thirds of the room. Next question is always who in this room has had suicide prevention training? The answer is usually me. So so I always say to people we have already been in the conversation with no idea what to do, and you did the best you could and I'm so glad you're here Now. If you had a couple of things to hold on to for next time, wouldn't that be good? Couple of things to hold on to for next time, wouldn't that be good? Yeah, you're right, and that's how we sort of ease into things. Right, there is a gap. We know these conversations are happening. We know that most people don't have the tools. Would you rather be in that conversation with the tools or without the tools? Because it's already happening.

Tim Reitsma: 19:38

That's the statistics, that's the anecdotal, that's the responses from every class for five years, every time and start training, and we're not going to get to that in the next half an hour or 15 to 20 minutes.

Tara Adams: 20:00

How about we do the high level, just like a bit of a?

Tim Reitsma: 20:02

list. We won't do the six or explain them all.

Tara Adams: 20:05

How about that?

Tim Reitsma: 20:07

Let's, yeah, let's do it high level. I like that.

Tara Adams: 20:10

So first thing is to just get more prepared. So, for instance, listening to your podcast so grateful, whoever is listening to this, I'm so grateful. Oh yeah, okay, thoughts of suicide are more common than I knew. Start there. Second is get a couple of phone numbers in your phone before you're in the conversations. That's the most difficult time to find what you need. It's very stressful. Then we learn who you would have to tell.

Tara Adams: 20:41

Now, if you're at home or at work, these are different things. If you don't have a lot of suicide prevention training, you do need to tell someone. So at this highest level, I say things like we've got two options, not three. One is emergency, two is urgent, that's it. So if you have a lot more training, if you're clinical, if you know how to do safety plans and interventions, et cetera, you have three, four, five, six options. If you have no training, you have two options emergency or urgent, that's it. I don't, I can't figure out all the and you're not supposed to Just just leave it at that. So you will either be calling 911, ems or somebody else. So I'm going to keep it super high level.

Tara Adams: 21:26

And then the next thing we learn is how to protect ourselves in the situations and in these conversations, because, regardless of how much training you might have, there's a cost to you and you have to acknowledge it. Now I will shout it from the rooftops that this cost is worth every second, every penny, every ounce of energy, but you also have to acknowledge it. So it's heavy and it's hard to walk into these conversations. It's scary and it can affect you physically, mentally, socially, spiritually. So then we learn what will I do after I'm in this kind of conversation? And I personally don't present that as an option. I present that as part of the process Prepare, respond, debrief, inform. All the steps have to be done Can skip any what was that again prepare?

Tara Adams: 22:22

respond.

Tara Adams: 22:23

Inform debrief okay, prepare I like that yeah, prepare, respond, inform, debrief, and then it's super cheesy but at the end of every class I'll give you, I'll give away the plot. I will say to folks let's add an e so that my acronym can spell pride, because I'm so proud of you for coming so cheesy, but they love it, I love it. And so folks pick all these beautiful words that start with the letter E, everyone empathy, exhale, empowered, and goes on and on. And I say, okay, as a group, let's pick one word that starts with E, because then we have prepare, respond, inform, debrief for everyone or whatever they've decided, and then they can own that acronym and off you go.

Tim Reitsma: 23:09

I really appreciate that. You said there's only those two options. Right, you're going to call 911 or call emergency? One thing that I hadn't really wrapped my head around is the cost for you personally. So I have been in a conversation with someone. I won't give away the details or anything like that. Somebody came to me and said today's the day I'm going to die and I will never forget that. It it comes up at the most random times.

Tim Reitsma: 23:46

I triggered by things Um, this person is received the intervention they needed and uh is thriving. Um, from what I can tell, and we've lost touch, but, um, they, they received the support that they needed. And I reflect back and think I just went about my day. I don't think I've sought that help or sought that support, but it's a heavy topic. It's something that you will carry.

Tara Adams: 24:18

You will carry and you are. You clearly are. Yeah Well, I'm so thankful that person is with us and I'm so thankful they were brave enough to tell you. First of all, that is a huge compliment. You need to reframe this. If that person trusted you in that moment, just think about you are the person. What a gift that they said that to you. What a gift. There are people that die by suicide with no warning signs, with no clues, with no hints. Every single person who may die by suicide is an absolute tragedy. Absolute when there's no warning signs, no gift, no invitation, no way that we can help a person. It's hard enough, but the fact that that person chose you to be so brave at that moment is just such a compliment to you. Tim, Think of it that way. Think of it that way.

Tim Reitsma: 25:18

It's amazing that that person did that I'm very emotional right now, so if you're watching this, you'll see me tearing up. Yeah, thank you. Well, there's a reason. I've never thought of it like that.

Tara Adams: 25:33

Thank you. There's such a reason People, if a person is in a space where suicide makes sense to them, which is their moment, their logic, their life if it makes sense to them sometimes they will work very, very hard to make sure no one finds out, in which case it is not your fault, my fault.

Tara Adams: 26:00

We're all doing the best we can. So, opening our minds to this idea that if somebody shares with you that, that is a gift ah, I know, I know, you told me, now I know. Okay, then now we have something to work with. This is so exciting. At that moment it's terrifying, but it's also so exciting because if they don't want you to know, you probably won't know. So we've got to change what we're doing. That person wanted you to know why. Why? Because that's a call for help. They want to talk about it, they want an intervention. Think of it. They didn't want you to know. If you didn't know, nobody's going to help, no one's going to intervene, right?

Tim Reitsma: 26:48

you're absolutely right and and I think this this also ties in with the stigma of it's around suicide is oh they. This kind of leads into the direction I, I think we should, we should, it's really important to go is around the language. Oh they, oh, they attempted suicide and or they. You know, there's, there's often, at least in in experience, and I'm and I'll own this experience in in in my past. It was, oh, they attempted yet again, or they attempted, and it's diminishes the fact that they tried to to they. They were seeking to end their life. So that language is really, really important in order to end that stigma, isn't it?

Tara Adams: 27:37

I love this topic and I often joke, but I would be proud to be called the word police. I love the words and this is why the words are free and the words we could change today. That's why I get so excited. I actually don't think that the words will solve everything, not even close. But if you are working in anything that has stigma attached to it and you're thinking how am I going to change the world, change the government, change the politics, change the humans, change everything, it's overwhelming. So what I want to say is the words are free and you can change the words today. Therefore, I love the words and they make a huge difference. So let's talk about words. The hardest word to change is the most important one. We are going to work so hard to remove the word committed.

Tara Adams: 28:28

People do not commit suicide. People die by suicide. It's so important. Think of it this way I've lost three people that I love to suicide. First of all, they're cheering me on. They're very proud of me. Second of all, I'm here, I'm very much alive, and when you talk about my friend, I don't want you to say that they committed suicide. I'm here, I'm listening to you, so it makes a difference to me and I'm very, very much here with you. So it's not selfish, it's not a crime. People die by suicide. The other thing that's really, really, really important is, until now, we always talk about people as suicidal. Did you hear about Tara? She's suicidal. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, tara's suicidal. It is amazing.

Tara Adams: 29:18

Now, one of the things I noticed right off the bat because I'm the word police when we met is you naturally use people first, language, this language where you may have attributes, but you're a whole person. Whatever your life is my life. You may have attributes, but you're a whole person. Whatever your life is my life. So what I want to push people is to move away from saying people are suicidal to people have thoughts of suicide or even better, people live with thoughts of suicide, and if this is the first time you've ever heard that, you're saying yourself woof, that's a mouthful. And I will say you're right, you're absolutely right. People live with thoughts of suicide is a huge mouthful, I know, but guess what? They're here and they're very much alive, living with their thoughts of suicide, and let's, let's do our best to keep them here. Suicide, and let's, let's do our best to keep them here. It's so interesting and one of the things that absolutely opened my brain when I started learning about all this is that it's also possible to live with thoughts of suicide your whole life. What well I can live with all kinds of illnesses or chronic conditions I happen to live with one myself. My husband lives with one.

Tara Adams: 30:39

Like this idea that thoughts of suicide are just this thing and it's over. Here. I could learn to cope with my thoughts of suicide. I could. I have safety plans. I have maybe professional support, peer support, spiritual support, whatever it is. I now live with my thoughts of suicide. So I'm not suicidal. I'm Tara and I have thoughts of suicide is a whole different way of talking about people.

Tara Adams: 31:04

Approaching people makes me so happy. Um, there are a bunch of words that are always of hot debate and that's fine, because if you're debating words about suicide, you're making me happy, so that's fine. Um, we never would say a successful suicide, completed suicide. Don't love that. Um, people die by suicide.

Tara Adams: 31:30

Um, there's a lot of debate about suicide survivor. So people who lose a person to suicide if you, if you love that word and it it means something to you and you want to say to somebody I am a suicide survivor. I would never tell you how to describe yourself or that your language is wrong. I would never do that, I promise. If you are thinking about it and you don't have that lived experience, I prefer not to use that one, because the people who may die by suicide cannot survive by suicide, right? So it gets confusing. Who are you talking about? This person or that person? So I often just say I've lost people, I love to suicide and I have friends who have died by suicide. So there's all kinds of debate in this space. But, honestly, debate is a good thing. I like the debate because then we're talking about it.

Tim Reitsma: 32:32

A debate is there's healthy debate. Yes, healthy debate, and I think that's what you're getting to is there's clear language. To use clear language to stay away from. Yeah.

Tara Adams: 32:41

And lots in the middle.

Tim Reitsma: 32:42

Can be up to debate and lots in the middle, but there is some clarity in what to say and what not to say.

Tara Adams: 32:47

There are words that we have lots of clarity about. There's also a lot of words and I hope I'm saying this with all sincerity that your life, or maybe your grief and your lived experience, you do get to choose your own words. So I'm not teaching you. I might offer you some different words and those new words might feel better for you and that's fine. So if you have your own lived experience, you get to name it.

Tim Reitsma: 33:16

I'm not in your lived experience no no, and I, and and I. What I'm getting from you is this is helping us understand this s word, suicide, in a way, and we're not going to end this stigma, but hopefully, if somebody's listening to this or they, somebody will leave and go. Okay, um, I'm not alone. Um, I need to set up a care plan or I need to talk to someone, and there's, there's language to use there's lots of language to use.

Tara Adams: 33:52

One other thing I would say about the words and this is really my personal professional opinion I feel like when a person has thoughts of suicide and if the weight of stigma is very, very heavy, I feel like me as the support person in the conversation. When I say the word suicide, it's like a green light, like I can hear what you're saying. I'm not running away, I'm not scared of the word. It's scary in this conversation but it's like such a clear signal to you If you need to say yes, if you need to tell me, I could hear what you're saying. When people say, oh, are you? Oh you're not going to like hurt yourself, oh, it just, it's natural. But it feels like please say no, please say no, please say no, please say no. Like I just I'm so scared you're going to say the word.

Tara Adams: 34:44

If I say the word to you, it's the opposite. It's like if you need to say yes, I'm here, my ears are open, my heart is open. Are you thinking of suicide? Oh, oh, so we shy away from it and we. It's so interesting, it's almost like I need to say it a couple of times so that you could feel safe saying it one time to me. That's how I think. Yeah, that's how I think about it. That's how I think about it.

Tara Adams: 35:14

Yeah.

Tim Reitsma: 35:14

Well, I think it ties right back to what you said at the beginning too, which is in your class, you'll often find people who want to jump in and help, and I find that you know that's kind of a common thread with anybody who's sharing about their condition. In my case, invisible conditions is I live with this. Okay, I need to help you. Do you have the right doctor? Or have you tried this diet, or have you tried this? And it's like let's just pause and Tara has given you a plan. It's like you've got two options Watch the language you use, take care of yourself, that's it. You don't need to go in and say, well, have you tried going for a walk, or have you tried meditation, or have you tried this or have you tried this? Just pause that, you know. Turn off your brain. It's not. You're not here to help yourself. You're here to help someone else, and if someone has trusted you with this, this, um, very personal disclosure uh, honor that and I don't know how else to say that. Just honor that and respect that.

Tara Adams: 36:13

Without anybody coming to my class or any of the amazing classes all around the world. I'm going to give you this. So if you find yourself in a conversation later today or tomorrow and you haven't done any training, that's okay, and I come to you and I say I'm having thoughts of suicide. I want you to say I'm so glad you told me, just start with that and everything after that is fine. Whatever you do, whatever you say, I'm so glad you told me means I'm not going to run for the hills. I heard what you said. Often, the next thing you say is I don't know what to do, but I'm so glad you told me. I heard you. I heard you. I'm not turning around, I'm looking at you. I heard exactly what you said to me and I'm so glad you told me. Now I have no clue what to do next. It would be fine if you said that It'd be fine.

Tim Reitsma: 37:12

It's just that little thing, right that little huge thing I'm so glad you told me, you picked me.

Tara Adams: 37:20

Oh, I'm so glad you told me Just say it over and over I'm so glad you told me and they will be like you are. Yeah, I'm really glad you told me. Now, what are we going to do?

Tim Reitsma: 37:33

Yeah, and that's why I think you know, I know your time is limited and I know you have to run here shortly, and so this half an hour is just so packed with insight. I've learned a lot and I wish I had this knowledge back in the day, but I can take this now into the future and have these conversations with my kids and my friends, and I'll be the first to be honest I've lived with thoughts of suicide. I've had to seek help. I've had to seek help, and so if somebody, if you're listening to this and you're feeling you need support, reach out to someone. Reach out to 988. Tara, as we wrap up the conversation, I'm just really curious what do you want to leave us with today?

Tara Adams: 38:25

I want to leave you with the most important thing. If you learned anything today and I mean the proverbial all of you your most natural reaction will be to apply what you just learned going backwards. And the most important thing is that, even though everything in your brain, in your heart, will do that to you, you need to honor anyone you may have lost, anytime you may have had your own thoughts of suicide, and apply what you learned going forward. It's so so hard. Trust me I, you're in good company. I've lost three people to suicide and I cannot go back and change anything. I can. I can take what I know now and I can bring it forward and hopefully honor them and hopefully they're very proud of me. I think they are. So I know that. Learning language resources, what to do, what to say. You are going to start saying, oh, there was this time and I could have, should have, would have said that hurts you, that really hurts you, so you have to just stumble forward. That's what I'd leave you with.

Tim Reitsma: 39:37

That's just a great life. Lesson in general is we can't change the past, but the past can inform our future. And what are we learning today?

Tim Reitsma: 39:45

that we can apply tomorrow and the next day and the next day, and we're not going to get it right. But, as Tara said, you know, thank you for trusting me with this. I don't know what to do next, so let's figure it out together, but thank you, thank you for this, thank you for sharing this with me and Tara. I know we could go on for a long time. We'll do a part two, we'll have to do a part two and so, for those who are listening, we'll have all of Tara's information in the show notes, resources, links. I'm going to build out the page, so there's plenty of resources there for you, but if you're still struggling and don't know who to turn to, you know how to get ahold of me. My email is right there on my website.

Tim Reitsma: 40:34

I will always have space for you, and so know that you're not alone and we're here. So, tara, thanks for sharing your insight with us, your story with us, and for coming on.

Tara Adams: 40:45

My pleasure.